600th Episode! Major Announcement and Swag Giveaway!

You're listening to Syntax, the podcast with the tastiest web development treats out there. Strap yourself in and get ready. Here is Scott Silinski and Wes Bos.

Welcome to Syntax. This is the podcast with the tastiest web development treats out there. We are on the 600th episode today. Unreal. How you doing, Scott?

Day. I'm doing so good. I am caffeinated up, and, I had a I had a huge life change, Wes. I got a tattoo.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I saw that, actually. Can you you tell us a little bit about that before we get into the major announcement you saw in the This was the major announcement.

No. I got a I got a couple of penguins. I can't you know, it's a visual podcast, but I got a couple of micro penguins.

It's very cute, and, I'm super excited about it. I've been I've been on the wait list for this tattoo for a while, so it feels great. Yeah. Looks sick.

Alright. Well, let's get down into it. This is the 600th episode. It's Unbelievable to Scott and I that we have gotten this far, and we have a big announcement for you today. Let's just get out and say it. The Syntax podcast Cast is joining Century.

This is awesome. We've been working on this for A couple of months now, you may have noticed that we have had no other sponsors other than Century on the last couple, And we're excited today to tell you all about that and what that means for the podcast. We're not going anywhere. In fact, syntax is going to get even better, and our hope for this entire podcast is to sort of explain to you our ideas and thoughts and and whatnot, what's to come.

So we have a A guest on today, we have David Kramer, who's the cofounder of Sentry. Welcome. Hey, everybody.

Great to be here. Excited to learn about Scott's Penguins, and I don't I don't understand. Is it like a Linux thing? But, you know, we can get to that, I guess.

Yeah.

To to give you some background, the penguins I got is a a thing for my my wife and I. Penguins, they made for life, and they have their little Partner. So I got 2 little penguins as their little partner. So it's a nice little, nice little, marriage thing that I got. That is very, very giving of you. Yeah. I know it's better than getting, like, a tattoo of, like, your partner's name or something. That is definitely true. Yeah. Totally. Alright. Well, let's talk about this. Let's talk about the century thing. Yeah. Go go for it, Scott.

Go for it, Scott.

Yeah. Put me on the spot here. No.

Yeah. To to to put some background on this whole thing, well, we started talking last year sometime, and the conversation started out pretty pretty, I don't know. Pretty open ended just to see where it could go.

And and, really, what we came up with is that every every one of us Was really aligned on the same things. We we felt really strongly about, how we saw the podcast moving forward, the vision that we had for where it is now and where it could be.

And, ultimately, we felt like we could accomplish more together, than we could apart. And and, honestly, I couldn't be any more excited about this because every step of the way, Century felt like the perfect fit for us in regards to The vision that we had for the podcast giving us that ability to control the future of what this looks like, but also, You know, our vision for how this has been has kind of remained the same in in its evolved, but it's it's really had the heart of it in the same place this whole time. And the most important thing to me personally, but I I'm sure to you as well, Wes, is that Century didn't change The heart of this podcast.

In fact, what they bring to the table is only going to, like you said, already off the top, make it better in so many ways of which we'll we'll talk about. Yeah. Exactly. Because we have lots of ideas,

lots of things that we would love to do, and it's Part of the reason why we have 3 this podcast has moved from once a week to 3 times a week because we have lots of ideas, lots of stuff we wanna Or stuff that we want to get into, but, like, obviously, time and resources are limited. So when Century said, hey, like, We're interested in growing this thing, doing a lot more.

It's a perfect partnership.

So I've been to give you some context for people who maybe haven't fallen Followed along for a long time.

Century has been a partner both for the podcast as well as for my courses for many, many years. I think, like, Probably, like, 6 or 7 years ago, I released my Redux course.

And Ben from Century reached out and he said, hey. Like, When we work together, do you have any ideas? It's basically just kind of open ended. And I said, hey. Yeah. Like, do you wanna sponsor this course that I'm doing? And, like, In exchange for that, I showed how to people how to use entry in one of the videos. But like, it was like a really cool like, what are your ideas? What do you want to be working on? Not Like I get every single day in my inbox. I have, like, a, here is a script that we want you to follow, and it's just it's garbage. Right? And it's just no, I'm never going to be doing that type of thing. So I've I've always been a big fan of Sentry, and we're glad to to have them on board. Yeah. And we were, again, both customers before we, ever had a sponsorship with them Very true. Yes. Yeah. I've used Sentry for a long time and then they joined,

you know, Syntax in the sponsorship realm in, like, 2018 so So we've been working with them in that regard for a long time.

And, like, ultimately, you know, the this podcast is something that Wes and I have both, just you know, it's been a total labor of love, and now it gets to be the point where we can really truly Continue to do it with full effort essentially, because for me it started off as the side project to my business and that now it can become, You know, my main project, and and that part of it is is extremely exciting for me.

What else does it mean? Podcast is obviously going to be free. A lot of people We've asked us to do, like, Patreon, Patreon without ads, and I've never felt good about that type of thing because I've always wanted to Have a majority of the content that I have to be available to everybody, to the community, right? Like it's I want the Broadest amount of eyes to be able to to reach that type of thing. So, there's no more ads on the podcast anymore. We don't have to Sell them to all the companies, and we also don't have to do the ad reads upfront. You don't have to hit your skip 32nd button anymore.

They are no longer on the podcast, which is pretty exciting. Yeah. In in all of the episodes, we're not going to be, having to, you know, resort to ads. And, again, like you said, you know, doing the Patreon thing, It is important that we we didn't have, like, there'd be a haves and have nots of who can access, you know, educational web development content.

So in that regard, beyond just being like, oh, now there's no more ads, and that's incredible, it's also saying, hey. We can have a podcast that's more supported without Having to charge for it, and and everybody can get access to that. And that to me is, like, you know, I got my career I started on YouTube where I put out Thousands of free videos. So, like, making sure that stuff is accessible for free has always been a huge mission of mine. So that was, like, really one of the most enticing things when Century said, hey.

We can we can make your show better, and your audience will have a better experience in a number of ways.

And it's Also going to enable us to do things that, like, we haven't done, that people have been asking for, that we've been really wanting to do for a long time, like video. And and that's not gonna, that's not a commitment to say, like, Next week's episode all of a sudden be a video episode, but we're gonna be starting to do a video realm of the podcast. And, you know, Code is such a visual medium, and both of Wes and I have so much experience on on camera doing live coding, video coding, those types of things. We're now gonna be able to have a bit of a component to the show, podcast wise or otherwise, where we're actually getting to visually show you things in addition to just, like, talking about them. And and to me, that's like a a huge thing that we've been wanting to do for a long time. But also people have been asking for a long time when when's this going to be on Twitch or YouTube or whatever? And, We'll be doing that. Definitely.

Absolutely.

So, David, do do people call you Kramer or David? I I was people I I like, can I call you Kramer? People call you Kramer? What's the deal there? Yeah. So,

it's always been one of those catchy last names. Like, actually, when I got married, I was willing to change my last name, but I'm like, but Kramer's such a good last name.

So, like, funny enough, the way this kinda started was I joined Dropbox, and they're like, what email address do you want? I was, like, like, 300th employee or something like this. I'm like, oh, David at Dropbox. And they just kind of looked at me side eyed, and they're like, You and 50 other people. Yeah.

And so I'm like, I guess Kramer.

And so I I go by both.

I think Kramer is just, like, an easier thing. And also, like, David is Super common white person name, so, like, there's a lot of us.

But, yeah. So either works. That's good. Well, can you can you maybe give us a rundown of, Like, why did you even, approach us with this idea in the 1st place? What is your vision for what syntax could look like?

Yeah. So I guess if you were to know me at all, you would know that I have, like, a lot of crazy ideas for what is important in the world.

A lot of what we've done at Sentry is just like what we thought was, like, the right thing to do. It wasn't like, oh, what's the savvy business move or, you know, things like this. Right? And I've always liked syntax, and I've always liked, like, authenticity.

And so, I'll give you the good connection stories. Like, a couple years ago, might even be before COVID. I'm not sure. Time lines are fuzzy these days. But, we started this billboard campaign, and everybody's like, what is this billboard? And the the billboard, if you haven't seen it, it's like Some weird image show like, something that doesn't make any sense, and it just says Sentry can't fix this. And if you don't know what Sentry is, we'd like our kind of, like, bug tracking is, like, how you might associate this.

And it's not like an error that we're showing you. It's just like a a Minotaur playing bee saber or something like this. And it's like, Sentry can't fix this. Lot of people would be like, what the hell is this ad? Right? And to me, that's brand advertising. It it get it it, like, creates curiosity. It's also fun, and, like, it's lively. Right? It's a lot of this stuff. And so I'm a big believer in that, and and my cofounder, Chris, on the design side is is as well, which is why we spend a lot of, time on visual identity.

And when, you know, when we started working with Syntax, I think not only did it like, the ROI was always great for our business. Like, like, the partnership was always really good for us, and that's a rare thing, to be clear. Like, Most of the time, you spend money on ads, and the return is not very good.

And and so I think there were 2 things. It's 1, like, The show was just good content. Like, it shows in the community and listeners. Like, people wanted the content. They wanted, like, just a real conversation. They wanted, like, real, like, like, just access to this kind of stuff, right, versus some manufactured whatever, which is super common in the industry. So that that was part of it, I think, that mattered a lot and that that we resonated with. And then I think the other was just like, especially once we got to talking more that brand connection, like, like the skate decks and everything. I'm like, this is literally like, You are my people. Like, I I understand everything. When when we first designed our logo, we literally went to the guy and he's like, Kind of got, like, a skateboarder vibe. And I think he's done, like, skate decks and stuff in the past. His name is Matt Saturday.

And I'm like, we want, like, a skate brand. I I am not a I'm not a boarder. Like, I I have nothing to do with skateboards, but I'm like, I want something that's cool. Like right? Like, I wanna be associated with cool. And I don't know. I think it's just an opportunity to do something that's interesting. I I I know we'll talk more about, like, what that can be and stuff, but I I I think there's a lack of people doing things that are authentic, add value, and have access kind of in the world. Right? It's like why Century is, like, so bullish on, like, we're gonna do things that we think matter And our, like, our way of doing things versus, I don't know, how every other business in the world is run. You know? Whether it's right way or wrong way, we don't care. So it's It's so cool. And, honestly, like, one of the first times we met,

you I saw in the background, you've got a vinyl of Blink 182, Enema of the State, which is like an old Blink album. And I was like, alright, this guy is cool. Like, you know, like, there's that type of stuff. Like, the syntax logo has Grunge on it. And it's just Funny that there is overlap in that type of stuff. And I've always felt pretty passionate about putting Our style and vibe into syntax and not making it just another polished whatever type of thing that there's so many of those things out there already. So many soulless

soulless, podcasts or personalities just pushing the same kind of Stuff that you're getting on, and it could be like a written by AI or something. Although, on the Blinkway 2 tip, Wes, Kramer, you might not know this, but Wes has been trying to get us to do a podcast intro to the the show that's What's My Age Again or something? Yes. Like, the actual song just with the lyrics changed to be about syntax, and I've been I've been really thinking that that's gonna get us,

Kicked off of the the podcast players, but, you know, maybe it's time. Maybe it's time we get a Blickway 2 intro here. And, Wes, it might even be better if using it yourself. Could we maybe we could get that. No. Because so so I I wrote an entire intro that was What's my age again? He was with my agent. Yeah. I remember it very clearly. And I found I found a guy on Fiverr that sounds like like Blink, and he was gonna record it As, like, an intro, and Scott says, we're gonna get sued. And I said, no no way. No. There's no way we're gonna get sued. This is gonna be awesome. But he said, no. No. No. But now That, the, all of the liabilities off of Scott and I.

Oh, yeah. That's why we can go ahead and do that. Yeah. The Blickley turn interrupts. This is why we have a legal team? We're just Yeah. I think I think derivative is fine. You know? I I keep trying to convince the legal team to, like, let me be, like, a legal intern, until I can learn more. But, you know, there there's actually this guy on YouTube. I forget his name, but, I first stumbled upon him because he did, like, Cover the semi charmed life by Third Eye Blind, and he also does some blink 182 stuff. And I think it's like what would this song sound like in the style of blink 182 is, like, his whole shtick.

I'll send it to you. It's pretty good. Oh, that's great. Yeah. We gotta we gotta do something like that. Although I do think Wes should sing it regardless.

I just had a little, A little note to hear that I thought it was super interesting that the ROI on the the Sentry sponsorship was was always good for you because Sentry had never Given us things to read, all they've given us was a coupon code.

And, every now and then, they have little Points. Hey. We launched this feature. You you can include it in your next one. And it's amazing that someone can give you so much money to sponsor the podcast and then just say riff on it.

But that helps, I think, Wes. Yeah. When I was talking to, because when we were talking about the deep the this deal and everything and and going through things for the last couple months, You have to keep it confidential. Right? And the sponsorships thing came up, and one of our marketing folks is like, hey. I heard we're not, we're not we can't renew the syntax sponsorship or something like It's not like, you know, that's, like, the only one that does well for us. Right? I'm like, no. No. No. I know. We're working on a partnership. Don't worry about it. It's it's good. It's good.

Yeah. We've been getting emails from, I forget who in our our inbox with, like, the new talking points, and they're like, hey. Can we connect Found this advert ad ad reads, and we're just like, I don't know what we can say. I don't know who what we can say to who. I had to get David to Oh, you did? Talk Yeah. I had to get over the top to a few people. Yeah. Yeah. That's hilarious. Yeah. Just some, like, hand wavy, like, trust us conversations. It'll be okay. You know?

Yeah. That's so funny. Oh, that's good. So let let's talk about, like like, what does that mean in terms of, more better Syntax in the future. So, like, we don't necessarily have what everything is nailed down just yet, but kind of the high level Overview of it is just more content, high quality content, better content, all of that type of stuff. So whether that means We talked about video.

I really want to get into the clips game as well because there's so many little Nuggets that have been said on this podcast that are are lost to time. Right? They're they're inside of an hour long podcast where those could be could be really nicely surfaced. Oh, no. In that same regard,

which this hasn't been did yet, but I'm going to be joining Sentry full time. And with me, Caitlin Bloom, anybody who's ever joined one of the level up course drops, Caitlin Bloom's also going to be joining Sentry.

So she's going to be enabling us to interact more with the community, and she's gonna be doing things like clip pulling and and and pulling out. Like, a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about for a long time of, like, being able to surface Some of our best old episodes instead of rerecording them because that stuff is still extremely valid and extremely modern at this point. So, she's gonna be doing a lot of work to help surface some of that content and and self help put some of that out back into the community in front of everybody. So,

that that's a big big component of this as well. I wanna say from the Sentry side, like, I know one thing we've talked a lot about is, you know, Sentry's it's like 400 people. We've got a lot of humans.

And with those humans comes a lot of skill sets, which I think will will come into play, like, especially, like, our creative team. Like, we've got full time video staff. We've got A lot of illustrators that are very, very good at their job. And so there's a lot of cool stuff I think we'll be able to do that, frankly, will just come more easily Then having, like, yeah, I gotta go find a contractor to do this cool idea I have. And, and you just get, like, really fast turnaround, which is really exciting. Ignoring, like, even the funding then of, like, Having to, like, find ads and, you know, sponsorships and and whatnot. So to me, that's really exciting as well. Yeah. A huge,

Fortunately, huge part of our job doing syntax is wrangling sponsors. And as much as we love and have loved working with all of our sponsors, It's never been my favorite thing entering emails and updating spreadsheets and then sending invoices and those types of things.

So not having to do that will be a huge Huge bonus for both of us, time wise, but, also, you know, the stuff that we like to do. Wes and I are both really, like, content focused people. We really like making, making stuff and and Yeah. Making invoices, and this is not the type of thing that I I prefer to be making.

Yeah. That that was the interesting thing with the these sponsorships is that a lot of people, like, just outsource it. You don't get somebody else to do it. But the the tricky thing with our Our sponsors was they wanted to talk to Scott and I because we are on the pockets. They wanted to get it across. Right. Like, this wasn't like a me undies where we're Sling and a coupon code is like we for a lot of responses, we had actually used the product and understand how it works so we could have like a genuine.

And that's probably why the century one works so well is because, like, I'm in it every day. I'm I'm using it. Like Yeah. I'm using it. Lots of lots of errors To work with. You know? Yeah.

That's good. So lots of different types of content coming down, lots more announcements And whatnot. But if if you, yourself, the listener, has something I would love if if, Syntax did x, y, or z, just hit us up. Tweet us at Syntax. F n. We'd love to hear Your thoughts as well. Yeah. One of the most exciting things about this whole thing is just, like, how much bigger we can think because,

you know, syntax before was, You know, a Monday Monday project for Wes and I wasn't a a full week project.

Now with resources and, Like you were saying, Kramer, about, like, all of the people at Sentry.

Yeah.

We can think much bigger and much differently than we were thinking before of, like, How can I cram all of the stuff in my Monday morning? Now it's like, what what can we possibly do? And then that's hugely exciting. Yeah. I'm personally excited to see where you are. Like,

You know, the podcast has been phenomenal. I I know we're maybe you're gonna talk on the website and stuff like that, and we talked about what we can do. You know, I I think there's a lot of stuff that I think is interesting to push the boundaries that just people nobody really tries is how I think about a lot of the world, and nobody really Like, to your point of a lot of it, it's, like, soulless.

Mhmm. And there's just a lot of great ideas. You don't even have to be original. It's just like, how can we apply this kind of thinking to what we do? You know? Even going back to that brand thing, I'm, like, I always reference, like, brands like Porsche, even when it comes down to, like, Century of just, like, the details and how well they're known. And and you when you think about a lot of brands, it's like clothing or something. Like, why are those popular? You know? And and I'm like and one thing that I was talking about with with, Scott, less lately that I'm, like, interested in trying out is, like, what if we did, like, a live event or something once in a while? And, like, what could that look like? And Where I'm inspired from is, like, I get invited, you know, to a lot of these, like, posh founder events, and they're they're great fun.

It's, like, usually really good food. It's really it's, like, free drinks that are, you know, not Jack Daniels or whatever, you know, whatever the bad version of this, I'm not sure about light.

No offense if you like any of those things. Totally fine.

But, but they're always, like, really high quality. Right? And the conversations are also really high quality in those same situations, which is often a little bit different than, like, your normal meetups that you might go to. And I'm like, oh, cool. What if we could try something like that with syntax? Mhmm. It doesn't mean we'll do it or it'll work or anything, but I'm like, it'll be really interesting to because, like, We have budget. Right? It's like we can actually try a lot of these things without really without there being any risks. So I don't know. I I just think a lot of open opportunities. Totally. I I think that

When you're not necessarily stressing over breaking even or making money on something, there's a lot more you can you can think about, right? Like One example is there is like, what would you want to do to celebrate? And we're like, well, let's let's make some sick t shirts or like we're going to print up a bunch more skate decks. And It's just such really cool stuff. And we also talked about, like, JSConf. That was 10, 11 years ago. I went to some of the very early JSConf And they were always at, like, really nice resorts. And there was a day in between the conference that you just got to hang out with people and had talks. And A lot of the, like, big big names in JavaScript were there and talking and, like, I just have like, this is 10 years later, and I still probably talk about it Once a month to my wife because my wife came and she is still friends with a lot of the other developers' wives. And I just like that Has never happened again since the JSConf stopped happening, at least from from Chris who is running it. And I just like someone's got to bring that back and Maybe it's us. You know? Yeah. I think I think we just have, like, a major opportunity to bring our

vibe to all sorts of things. And and, like, I I think the the overall vibe isn't going to change around here. So that's that's, like, a big message that I I hope you get out of this episode is that, the overall vibe of syntax, not going to change. Yeah. I think we we stand primarily for, like, positivity and curiosity and, Excitement about tech and those types of things, and those aspects are going to just permeate further into whatever we continue to do with this in addition to the podcast. And and And the stupid stuff's not going away either. Like, we're still gonna have monster truck intros. Stuff's not going away. Yeah. It's not going away.

Shout out to everybody who said our intros were Kinda cringe.

Like, the episode number 2 or 3? Like, I don't know about this tasty treat thing. It's kinda yeah. Okay. Congratulations.

You understood the you understood the point.

That's good. I'm sorry. We got here. Oh, clarifications.

So Scott And Love Love tutorials are joining full time.

I am joining part time and will continue to build all of my courses So my courses aren't going anywhere, but I'm going to take more time into the syntax stuff to obviously continue to build what it is we have and to Make even better content than we already have. Yeah. So, David Kramer? Now you're just going both of them. Yeah. Like, first and last. Yeah. Give us your actual background as well. So we do that for everybody that comes on the podcast. It's like, I know you said you work for Dropbox, but what was your Lead up to that. And then also, why did you start Sentry?

Honestly, I'm just like, like building things.

Pretty good at typing on a keyboard.

Mostly math works out for me. And I think you combine all those, and I can build software. Right? No. I I'm like I'm one of those, like, stereotypes of, like, dropout turned founder turned hopefully successful company kind of thing.

I mean, I got started. I'm I'm what I would call old these days. A lot of people under me would get mad about that. But, I mean, I've been writing stuff since I was, like, 15 using IRC. And, like, if anybody remembers that IRC on Windows, that's how I learned to code is writing these scripts inside this chat room client. And then, you know, kinda one thing led to another. Your pat like like, I think similar for you all. You like, your passion kinda drives a lot of where you end up. If you are truly passionate about it and it and it's like a cable industry. So for me, it was like, while I was in, like, the Internet, the social scene, I was into, like, video games and stuff. And so So early days, I'm working working on, like, tech video game website stuff. Right? Yeah. And one thing letting know that it's, like, leads to a job. And I I I'm generally one of those people that believe if you, like, Really spend the time on something. And especially if you enjoy spending that time, like, there's a good chance it'll turn into something very good for you. Right? And I just along the way, I was like I thought open source was, like, a really good thing. And so I spent a lot of time doing open source, and Sentry just happened to be one of those many things I built. And so, Eventually transitioning the the, you know, Silicon Valley as we we know today. I worked for a few companies like Disqus and Dropbox, which were, You know, 10, 15 year old startups at this point. And then century started in well, actually, In just over a month, we're gonna celebrate the 15th anniversary of the 1st commit century. So century is barely old now. Yeah. That's which is wild to me.

And even to the point where again, COVID years, it added a lot of time to things. But, I think the company is about to be like The the business is actually over 10 years old already.

And, like, sort of the the full business where we hired employees and, you know, tried to grow more is I mean, we started that in twenty 15. And so even that's getting close to a decade. It's just wild to me. But but I'm I'm a software engineer by trade. Like, I, you know, started the company with my my buddy, Chris Jennings, who, runs our creative function, product designer.

I don't know. Just like building things these days. It's so good. I I still try to find time where I can write code and stuff. So I think, you know, one of the things that we all clicked on is, like, we are, like, curious people. Like, we're curious how that work and, like, if we can solve these problems and things like that, and and that always resonated

One of the really interesting things I'm curious about how you do is that you run A very large company. What? Is it 4 you said 400 employees, 3 offices?

Four and a half offices now.

So There's all of that, but then, like, you're also, like, daily tweeting about obscure JavaScript stuff and and remix, And, like, it it seems like you're you have you're very dialed into like, you said that you wrote the the 1st run of The current century dashboard in React. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I act I wrote it in Angular and then Ember. And then I got halfway through writing in React when Ben Vinegar, Who who were referencing earlier joined Century and finished the work.

I mean, I we always joke about this in the company.

I tell people that you you know how, like, they're always you go to, like, tribal villages and stuff, like, old style, half of it just fiction in movies, but, like, You you, like, battle somebody to become, like, you know, the leader of the trap. Right? I always joke with people. I'm like, if you can type faster me faster than me, you can be in charge.

And so I'm just very good at cranking things out. And I, honestly, I genuinely think I I'm curious. Again, half of this, I do because I want to do it. Yeah. And one of the unsatisfying parts of my job is that I don't actually really get to work on Sentry itself, like, from a technical lens anymore, from, like, a actually Fingers on keyboard, you know? And so I try to fill that with other bits, but I I genuinely just like building software and building things, and I'm always trying to find new problems to solve. And so Whatever my tweets are, probably something that's like me doing something right now. Now Mhmm. I'm sure a lot of those are me complaining.

Not about tailwinds, you know, about other things usually.

But 10.

You know, it's, I don't know. It's just It's like a passion. It's it's it's fortunate, I think, for me, and I think maybe similar for y'all that we are we're lucky that we can make a career out of what we actually enjoy spending time doing. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. That's always been my goal in life is I don't want to grow my thing

so large that I I can't go and spend a morning dipping into new CSS specs or I have an idea and I can write some code to fix this type of thing.

So I think we're pretty aligned on that as well. And also, like, do you think that because you are so code focused, That is part of the success of Sentry. Like, it's obviously a product for developers, but, like, it seems you've never lost that. Yeah. I think actually people often ask me if I have tunnel vision.

And I think I do and I always have, but it's like intentional tunnel vision. And I very much try to stay dialed in. Now I'll tell you. I don't know a lot about, like, we one of the challenges that Sentry has is that we try to build a software for, like, every kind of developer. And what I mean by that is, like, You're building a web app. Makes sense. We all know that. Or you're building a mobile app or a desktop application, or I don't know, you're John Deere building a tractor.

We're trying to build something worse than all those. I don't know anything about John Deere tractors as an example. I also don't know anything about mobile apps. And so there are limits, I think, to what my technical knowledge has been able to allow me to to help on the decision process and to, like, push.

But we do try to empower at the company, we try to, like, focus on, like, that sort of technical vision and and why that's important and Why having opinions about what we should do is really important, which I think is you talk about soulless podcast. There's a lot of soulless companies too, you know, that They're just here to build features and nobody really cares or has an opinion on what the point of it all is, you know? And so I hope you never become that company.

I will try very hard to avoid it because I just it's not interesting. Like, again, you wanna spend time doing things that are interesting and fun. And And to me, that's like, you know, the tech is half of that. Right? And building a product for myself is half of that. So Yeah. There there's so many things. I mean, it it's so funny, like, just to hear you talk about

your own stuff because it it's so hard for me not to, like, not along not not along to be like, yes. Me Me Too for, like, all that stuff. Right? Like the the I I love the whole, like, typing faster mentality thing because That's like a very b boy mentality in the breaking scene. Right? If if if you're better than the judge at a competition, You call the judge out, and you you challenge the judge at the competition. And then you can prove to everybody,