Jerome Hardaway + Vets Who Code

You're listening to Syntax, the podcast with the tastiest web development treats out there. Strap yourself in and get ready. Here is Scott Tolinski and Wes Bos. Welcome

to Syntax. This is the podcast with the tastiest web development treats out there. Today, we've got a very special guest. We've got Jerome Hardaway on, which I was just, like, making a list of bullet points of everything that Jerome has done and is involved in right now. So we'll save that for the introduction, but all kinds of really interesting stuff. Today, we are sponsored by 2 awesome companies. First1 is .techdomainnames, which is literally in the name. It's .techdomain names. And the next Node is Sanity, which does all of your error and exception tracking in your front end, your back end apps.

With me, as always, is mister Scott Tolinski. How are you doing today, Scott? Hey. I'm, I'm doing okay. I started

new physical therapy, like, first thing in the morning, it means I have to, like, wake up earlier than everybody for the 1st time in who knows how long, and it is difficult to wake up there early.

But, yeah, it's nice to get that out of the way and, you know, get home. And uncle Mickey is hanging out with Landon right now while, we record this. And, yeah, yeah, that's gonna be the rest of my day JS just hanging with Landon in, Brooklyn. That's good. Yeah. If if you hear Scott stop talking like, I was listening to the last podcast, and there was, like, a section where Scott just stopped talking for a while because he had to run out. So if you hear Scott duck out for a bit, that's because he's he's gotta turn uncle Mickey back on or something like that. Yeah. Courtney went back to work, so we're now splitting time 5050 where before Wes she wasn't at work because the school shut down. It was like, oh, alright. Well, you can have all the time you want to work, and now I do not get that time, which is very reasonable.

Yeah. It's just it's it's a Yarn transition.

Awesome. Well, let's get into it. So Jerome Hardaway at Jerome Hardaway on Twitter. Basically, I I think you referred to yourself as the the Captain America of tech. Is that right? No. I was referred to first by as the Captain America web,

by Kyle Chevlin. And then a bunch of guys at, Tulo Tulo, they started describing me as the sergeant at arms or the geek at arms of Vetsuko and Katharine Webb.

And that was, like, 2 years ago, and it just stuck that people started calling me. You know, I'm a huge captain America fan. People are like, oh, he's like the web's captain America.

So That's a better nickname than either we have. We we we don't have nicknames that are that cool. No. No. We don't. We need a cooler name like that. I I think it's very fitting. So, Jerome, you're a avid Tweeter. You have an air force background.

You've obviously learned to code yourself. We'll talk about that. You run a thing called Betsu Node. And then, like, most recently, given the, all of the Black Lives Matter protests, the awful police brutality, You've been, like, an incredible voice in the web development community, and you've just been, like, so generous with your time in helping people figure out, like, how do like, what do we even talk about? How to be an ally with all these voices and all that? So Wes thought we'd just have you on just to to talk to you about everything in your background JS very interesting as well as because you you met with Scott and I, and you sort of, like, helped us figure out what do we do as 2 white dudes in tech with a large platform, and and how do we handle that? So we really appreciate that. So do you wanna, like, give yourself a little bit of introduction? Did did I sort of cover everything there? Oh, yeah. You gave, you know, the high level overview.

Like you said, my name is Jerome Hardaway.

I'm the geek at arms or executive director. I guess I'm old enough now to be called an executive director, of Etzukode.

When I started Etzoo Code, I was, like, 27, 28, and I just didn't feel right with that title.

This Wes like everybody's like everybody was old. So I was like, I'm not like these, like, ancient Node. So I'm just gonna I'm gonna have a title for myself.

Basically, what we do is that we teach veterans how to program ESLint JavaScript.

A focus of and we do this a 100% free. No GI bill. No government funding. Nothing.

The sole focus of just, you know, teaching people JavaScript.

And right now, we're at a 97% success rate, 252 veterans in 37 states with jobs.

Very happy about that. We're growing every day in services because we try to run it like a tech company that you can mess up at and not get fired.

And it just you know, it's the joy of my life because I was a veteran coming from security forces, and, a lot of these programs didn't exist at all when I was out, and the only thing they were told me to do I could do is be a cop and go back overseas and go go back and get a shot at. And I was like, I don't like any one of those things.

So I start I learned how to code and got my 1st opportunity, with Department of Homeland Security, with database analyst, and I never looked back.

And when I was trying to help other veterans out, I was like, this you know, this is the way. Like, getting, like, veterans at early stages or any stage and teaching them how to utilize, their their critical thinking skills that they pick up in the military and apply that to programming.

That's just what I thought of. When I'm not doing that, I was a funny engineer at comic book. I love those guys. I was like, you Node, it's also, like, kinda fit into the whole Captain America stick. Like I said, I'm a huge cap the Captain America fan, Marvel fan. Yeah. You Node, I was a front end engineer. Sorry. I'm guessing my dog's growling.

It's alright. You do very well. We all have dogs. We all have annoying dogs that bark and get in the way. Yeah. My dog said that they're not having they're being very unfriendly with each other right now. So I was a friend engineer coming booked, loved it, but I recently moved on to be a dev advocate and take advantage with us for Quicken Loans.

I'm pretty sure I love that too. I'm already excited. My Bos, like, they're very aware of things that are going on, and they're very supportive. And it's just especially as minority, it's just super cool to be in type of environment like that where you can actually bring a 100% of yourself to work because that's, you know, code switching and everything like that. That's a very big thing in our community.

So that freedom to be able to be all of you, so that way you can be you can perform at the highest level that you have and not have to worry about tiptoeing around people's, like, ideals or their mic or the microaggressions or the thought processes that they have already preconceived in their brains about minorities. So you don't, you know, fit that. You work you Node? And that happens in a lot of workplaces where people are you know, they're trying to dodge that stuff, so they can't, you know, they can't bring their a game. And Can't be your full self. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's me. Quick loans, still have a kid, by day, executive director of Etzuko by night, essentially Batman without the money and the gadgets. So

Do you do you spend any time in Detroit at all because of Quicken?

They're gonna be having me fly out there every once in a while, so I'm Cool. Gonna be up there, but I'm in Nashville.

Yeah. Nashville is coming from Memphis, coming from a community, like or the tech Sanity, it wasn't really all. Nashville's been, like, a complete a 180 degrees, actually.

Like, they're taking the Bos Sanity is amazing here. I don't know if you know any of the guys here, like, Kyle Wes or, like, Eventbrite or anything like that. These guys, they really are were forward thinking, especially in the south. They're really forward thinking on, like, how to make communities inclusive.

So I'm very, like, appreciative of this community, but I also like, you know, I like to travel, and I'm lazy. I don't like leaving Node. So

Dude, I'm just I'm the same way. I, like Yeah. I I just asked because, I Node, I'm from Southeast Michigan and and Quicken Loans. I know they've done a lot for the city of Detroit. I know a ton of developers who have either worked there at some point in their career or, that they were definitely, one of the companies that was in our scene quite a bit given our our proximity.

So you you mentioned, basically, wanting to have a a different path after after, like, coming back. Right? What was your introduction into programming concepts that made you wanna say, alright. This is something that I really wanna devote myself full into, but also, like, I want to, show everybody else. Like, what was your introduction that made you just say this is this is what I want to to do this?

Alright. So I saw a commercial online, and they were just talking about coding, at a college or something. And I was like, what is that? And I did more research, and he was like, oh, you can learn how to do this stuff on your own. So I picked up SQL book, and that's how I got into, you know, SQL and, you know, Postgres and learning that stuff. And I've been, dealing with what am I thinking? Department of Node security. But what really, like, helped me, like, you know, get that bug of, like, wanting to dive in was, like, I wanted to be entrepreneur.

I saw business JS the way for upper mobility, at the fastest moments. And, like, the thing that I kept running ESLint was, like, all of the ideas I had, they were required programming, and programmers cost the most amount of money when it comes to building a project. And I was like, dude, like, if I can learn this stuff on my own, that will, like, save up a lot of the cost of, you know, building, projects and stuff like that. So that's what had me dive into it. Then I just really, like, man, the front end bug just really bit me, especially in terms of user experience because I like, I was security forces, and I put front end developers, like, as the elite gate guards of, like, the web. Right? So because in the end, users, especially your user focused developer, users really don't care about the back end as much as it doesn't work. Right? Like, it Yeah. They Sanity it to be fast, be pretty, and work right in that order. So that's where I was like, the front end guys, they kinda, you know, stole the show for me, and then that's what I wanted to focus on. I never I never forget my 1st front end framework. I never forget the 1st time I played with a different, like, front end CSS framework. Like, Sanity CSS.

That was the first.

Oh, that blew my mind. That's one of my most watched YouTube videos, actually. Slick slider, that was my, favorite. Like, that's what I did. That's actually how I met Ken Wheeler years ago. He was the 1st big name person, like, when I was learning how to Node, who actually spent, like, 30 minutes with me talking to me about something over online. I don't even think he remembers it. And I was like, yeah, just being able to, like, you know, to like, that's Wes another thing that attracted me to JavaScript. Like, how just down to earth Node, Node stuff. I was like, oh, these are people I can actually, you know, drink and play video games with, and,

you know, go from there. Dave, it's a target. About, like, producing stuff. Right? I mean, that is such a a a key key point. It's like, once you once you realize that your, limits are, like, sort of boundless in what you can create with these technologies, if you're the, like, the right type of person, you just sort of move into that holy cow, I can build anything. And then that that is, like, so so I don't know. It's so Superpower. Superpower. Right. Exactly.

It's freeing and and crushing at the same time. You're like, I can do everything, but there's not enough time to do everything. Mhmm. Right? You know, time becomes the enemy to creativity.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a perfect way to describe it because I know I have so many side projects that are just said unworked on because I have too much other stuff to to to work Node, too many other cool things to build that's I was telling people, like, I just should just start random Twitter where I just throw out, like, the first idea that came to me in that morning, and then, like, just have some Wes one have it. I can't even Yeah. Right. Yeah. Actually Yeah. Ironically, I I kinda did that. I started a thing down here, and I just let other people take it over because I just didn't have the bandwidth, like, between vets and code and helping the veterans and, teaching and writing. I was like, okay. You guys can have this, and they've been running with it, and I'm very, like, proud of them. Like, yeah. Cool. That's awesome. So

And that's hard to do to give give your projects over to someone else. You know, Node like think about, you know, Paul Vercel. He created React Spring for animations, and then it's just like, oh, he he started working on other things, but instead of just, you know, not releasing updates or whatever, he just gave it away to somebody else and let them work on it, and he'll still be there and maintain code or add code or whatever. But it's like, alright. Well, I made this thing, but it it I can't imagine giving away that kind of project that you you've put so much time and energy into it at all. Like, that's gotta be a weird feeling. Right? No. Not at all. Like, that's what I think that's part of being successful. Right? If Yeah. Like, one of the things that I tell my veterans is that part of that's who Node job is to be is to signal boost.

Every accomplishment I make, you have to make it in half the time. Like, that's what I tell them. Like, if I have my 1st big company corporation job, took me 4 years, then guess what? You have to do it in 2.

And, like, I literally tell them that. Like and they're like, holy crap. Why? And I have a few veterans that they've done that before. Or beat I have 1, Andrew, who's at, Verizon. I have Jeff who's at Microsoft and Shuster who's at Amazon, and they, you know, they fly holy crap. He's, like, really scared the crap out of me, but that's how, you know, I I you know, when we hit when we come up with different channels and different projects, I'll start start the project, but then I'll quickly give it to someone else because my I feel like my part of my mission is to use the work and the foundation that I've done to, you know, make other stars. Right? Muhammad Ali said it Bos, you know, charities like the rent we pay for being Node artist. So that's my thing. Like, alright. I have to I've done this. It's time for me to make sure that other people can use what I've done and use my skill sets or use the thing of whatever I've done to make it easier for them because if I make it to the top, it's cool, but I like I said, I I get a bigger high off of making I like helping other people. So I think that's the that's a military thing for me. Like That's amazing. You're the okay. I have another name for you that I've been watching the,

the Michael Jordan documentary, and they they were saying that, the reason why Scottie Pippen I think it was Scottie Pippen, was so good was because he didn't have to have the ball, like and he would just give it to the he would just, like, set it up and give it to somebody to score. Like, he didn't have to be the star of the show, but he saw it as his, like, place to sorta set other people up. I think that's really cool that that you're doing that as well. Wes don't even know anything about basketball. Like Me neither, except that I watched the documentary,

like, last night. Yes. We we watched it too, and I am I'm so hopeless at basketball, especially, like I actually, like, I can't enjoy watching basketball because of how terrible I am at it. I just know that it's like, oh, this this is just a reminder of not not good for me. Literally related to a famous

player and know nothing about it. Like, I'm related to Anthony Hathaway.

That's awesome.

Yeah. Basketball was my my sport growing up only because I was tall. And then at a certain point, everybody else caught up to me, and I was no longer good at it. I I didn't have that that advantage.

So you tie yourself to code database, and then you you guys started getting into teaching yourself JavaScript and things like that. Like, at at what ESLint? Like, how many years in did you start Vetsuko Node and and start to, like, then teach other people? Because, like, honestly, I don't know if you think this, but I think teaching other people is a great way to improve your own skill set. You're absolutely right. So this is how it worked out.

2014 hits the summer of 2014 was a really big year with the Department of Veteran Affairs and people in general.

I'm working, veterans in general. I'm sorry. So I'm working at a nonprofit where they have me as the digital, marketing admin, but, really, I'm the programmer. My 1st day at work, they were like, hey. You're young.

Can you fix our site? And it was the most god awful thing I've ever seen in my life. Took me 3 months learning Lamp Stack, which made me hate Lamp Stack afterwards, but now I'm learning to love Lamp Stack again, to do this. And, during that summer, we had a army veteran in my hometown end up, losing his life, ended up getting Scott by a wrongful BOLA of Department of Veteran Affairs. And because of who was involved, the government was involved. They were like, it's not really our fault, and the most we can do is give you, like, a couple $100 to pay for the head style. And, like, you know yeah. So this family was just you know, he had a daughter and everything.

And Oh, god. I was like, that's not right.

That that's horrible, but none of the nonprofits were gonna stand up to the VA because VA is big brother.

And, you know, most of them get their money through grants from the VA, so they were gonna do that.

So I'm at home chilling, and I get a phone call from a person in another nonprofit. It's like, Node, you have to help these people. I'm like, if the VA said Node. No nonprofit's gonna help me. Right? I'm not asking nonprofit. I'm asking you because I know you're the only person to pull her off. It's like, you're gonna get me in trouble. And, of course, I did get in trouble after this.

But I used my digital skills.

I built a website, used the things I learned well about digital marketing, and I was able to get a generating of buzz, during this whole crazy thing of of how summer was and raised $10,000 in 27 hours.

And Wow.

Wes were able to, like, give money to the family. We're able to put money aside for the little girl, everything.

And that's when I was like, okay. You Node? I've done my good deed forever.

I'm never going to hell. I wanna see you guys later. Peace out. And then people were like, no. You can't do that. Like, what else are you gonna do? Like, you've done something. You have that capacity. Let's do something. I'm like, okay. Wes, well, help me do this learn how to code. And because I'm in Memphis and all the people who are at VSOs are old people, they're like, say what now? What is this? Do you think people Ladder was asked at one point in time, do you think that ESLint troops Node can learn how to code? And here I am being an ESLint troop who learned how to Node, and I was like, that is wild.

Well, afterwards, like, general assembly, they see the things I've Deno, and they hit me up, and they're like, hey. Would you like to come up here? And I like to, like, level up your skills and stuff. We give you a scholarship, yada yada yada. And I'm like, yeah. Sure. Let's see what happens.

I go up there 6 weeks into their course. I end up getting my 1st job offer back Node. And so I just coasted the rest of the course because I I think the only thing I really learned was, like, command line.

So that's why. General assembly is a boot camp in New York. Is that right? Yeah. I was like, but the only really like, it was it was weird. Yeah. It was a whole weird experience. So I get back home, and the whole time I'm teaching veterans remotely and things like that. Like, this is before, especially, like, the nonprofit game was, like, very antiquated. We were the 1st remote nonprofit. Like, we were the 1st people. They were like, you know, you don't need big buildings. Like, you know, that all for me, Wes, when I was looking, like, I got this idea from being a general assembly of working in nonprofits. Like, a lot of this stuff is like, bloat to make people feel good, but it's not really as effective. And you can do more with less money, and that's the thing that I, like, really kinda focused on Wes, like, how can I be efficient and, you know, actually accomplish the mission? Like, I want I've I remember being in Iraq. I remember, like, how, you know, lean we were and how well we got the job Deno. And I was like, that's what you want. That's what you need when you're training. You Node, laser focus or minimal distractions. It's not making you feel like you're a developer, but focusing on becoming the thing that you wanna be. Right? And basic training. Yeah. Yeah. Bos training, everything. Like, and I understand, like, people don't like that's why I was the whole boot camp. Cold boot camp thing is weird. So it's not like cold boot camp. Like, they treat you nice. Nice. They feed you all the time. It's all happy. It smells good. There's no one yelling at you. No one made you get up at 4 o'clock in the morning. It's cold summer camp. Boot camp. You know? It's cold summer camp. That's what it really is. Like, it's not boot camp. Like, if you actually went through a boot camp for coding, like, you this would not be these would not sustainable businesses.

Because people would be like, I'm not doing that.

It's real. Like, somebody made you do data structure and array, data structures and algorithms the way, like, you would go into, like, a military boot camp, people would quit. Like, in New York Sanity, they're gone. Mhmm. So Yeah. That I was teaching the whole time, and it helped level up my skills and ramp up my skills fast. And, to this day, like, I try to teach all, like, at least 1 section of our cohort.

Now just everything's changed. Like, we were the 1st nonprofit. We were the 1st organization built completely JavaScript. We just nuked our Ruby back in, and we were like, we're gonna go we're gonna focus on JavaScript. Then we went we were the 1st to go serverless, and we were like, we're just gonna focus on Jam Stack serverless, focus, like, JS heavy on the language as possible. Like, I'm a firm believer in, making it hurt, and that's why I chose JavaScript because JavaScript does not care about your feelings. Mhmm.

Node.

So I was like words. Yeah. So I was like, okay. So we're gonna focus on pushing JavaScript to its limits for our veterans so that way they can get jobs. It's been working, and I am very happy for that because, like, it's the light joy of my lifetime helping people and helping fellow veterans.

That's unreal. I I love hearing that. That's that's so cool that you did that. I wanna know about the the tech. You you said gem stack and whatnot, but, like like Well, before we wanna know about the tech, maybe we should know about the .tech domains.

Oh, good. Good. You're hot. Wow. Yes. Let's talk about the Scott tech domains. So if you wanna know about tech and you're building a website, you're building a project, you've got a side project you're working on, or or you've you've got a business you'd like to start up and you need a new domain, you wanna check out .tech domains.

They are the they're used by all kinds of people. I'm I even use them myself. Go to users.tech.

I use that domain to create a Gatsby website. Totally open source. You can check it out, and it lists all of the people who have a forward slash use this page that details things like their text editor, their monitor, their mouse, kinda toilet paper they like to use, all of the stuff about the people that are on there. So if you Scott wanna align yourself with the tech industry and you need a new domain name, check out .tech.

You need to go to go.techforward/syntax2020 Wes use the coupon code syntax 2020, and you're gonna get, get ready, 90% off 1, 5, and 10 year domain names. Just go ahead. Buy the 10 year domain name at 90% off, and then set yourself a calendar reminder in 10 years to renew that thing. Thanks so much to .tech for sponsoring. Tweet us your .tech domain names at syntax f m. We'd love to see what you're building. Thanks so much to .tech for sponsoring.

Cool. So let's get into the tech now.

The Jamstack tech for Aventico, like because that's my favorite stack right now because I'm just very happy at how it it all turned out.

Right now, the stack is is Jamstack. It's serverless.

Gatsby on the front end, we're using Bootstrap JS the CSS framework while also still using, like, flex and grid, of course, because we have to make sure the troops know flexing grid.

And Amazon Wes Services JS part of the, for some of our database for some of our API in the way. Netafly and Contentful.

Those are that's everything they were using for the website.

And the code stack, like, the code is just we we we redid all the code to make sure that it was JS friendly as possible for beginners. Like, it was that was the most important part. We were like, it has to be beginner friendly. It can like, this whole site has to operate in a manner where people with less than went warp from 3 to 6 months of experience can come in and find something to do or not be intimidated.

And, like, that's, like, my favorite, like, you know, it's a simple stack, but that's what makes it so beautiful. Like, it it you know, we use simplicity and ease and try to, like, make people feel good versus, you know, coding with our egos and things. And that's, like, one thing that I'm a very big fan of is egoless coding. I have a saying that I tell my veterans. I was like, no. We, we build products for the user, but we write code for each other. So you have to think about the person left, right of you, the person Scott behind you when you write code. And so when we're looking and when we're doing our code reviews and things of that nature, that's always since first, like, thing, why did you write this code for you, or did you write this code for someone else? Yeah. Sometimes people,

they they do. They they they let their cleverness get in the way of writing code that generally makes sense to most people rather than making sense to 1 person or the person who wrote it. I think that's like I don't know. I I I love to hear you talk about that, the joys of picking a stack that just, like, works for you. Because I I get those, like, same feelings with a lot of stacks myself when I'm coding, and I think about, like, there is such a importance to really enjoying working in the code Bos and making it a joy to work in rather than just making it impressive to work in or something like that. You know? So I really I really think that's a a nice message for people JS that, like, code for the person that's behind you. I know that is a really cool way to say that. Yeah. Well, like, we have I also tell them clever code kills projects.

Right? Like, when you're because, you know, you you might look smart, but the person that's coming after you is gonna struggle with this. And it's, you know, everything will be easier if people just thought about the most vulnerable people, their population versus themselves, making themselves look good. So, like, that's what I think about, like, when I write something, like, would a person I always use that 3 month, 3 to 6 month rule. Like, with a person with 3 to 6 months of experience, understand this? Will I be able to explain this to them? They did a little bit of research and a little bit of elbow grease. Why would they, you know, would they get this? So they would go Bos Stack Overflow and or the MDN.

You Node, I never want someone, looking at something I wrote and just freaking out over it, because they can't figure it out. And I've had programmers I've worked with that are complete ops, and they, you know, they wanna make their stuff as complex as possible because, you know, that's where they get their ego. But I'm like, I kinda like, I used to carry m 4 and m 9 to work every day, so I'm kinda cool on the ego stuff. Like, I don't get my I don't get my rocks off from, like, coding.

I I help people with Node. So

I think that's important too in, like, even in API design. We talk a lot about, like, smart defaults and those aspects of your application that should just work. Right? They should just work without having to need a 1,000 different configuration elements in there. It's such a huge thing that I think many of us, because we really live in complexity all the time, that you it's hard you have a hard time of, like, thinking in simplicity, and that's such a key thing when you're creating things that other people are both going to code in and as well as consume.

And that's like the beauty of, like, thinking like a junior developer even at a senior level because you had this high level thinking. But if you always go back to the fundamentals, like, you're able to see that, hey. Oh, there's a new way to do this, a new thought processes of doing this in simpler ways. I never forget having, one of my troops, Carla, when we taught her to like the how to use fetch, and then she used it in a, code challenge that her job that she's currently working at Node, header Wes they're, like, getting data from API. And like, oh, we've never seen and never have used Fetch. And they were like, yo, this is brand new. So she was teaching them as I did. So, like, this is how it should be, like, done. So That that's, like, such a good thing. I I got a job once, maybe not specifically because, but, like, in my interview,

I they were asking about what kind of grid do we want to use for a project like this, what kind of grid would you choose to use, and I was like, well, I would use, Susie, which is a SaaS library, and they're like, wait. Why would you what is Susie? Why would you use that? We were using this. I was like, okay. Well, let me let me let me sketch out why I would use it, and you hear why here's why it's better and simpler than what you're using. And I think they were just like, oh. So if you can, like, teach your your interviewers something that they Node, that's like a surefire way too. As long as you can do it in a a way that's tactful, that's a surefire way to look really good in a in a job interview. Oh, yeah. You Sanity teach a interview

the interviewer or something, you're probably, like, 80% away getting that job. Like Yeah.

Yeah. That's a big help. You help your vets get jobs as well. Do you do any interview prep for them? If so, like like, what do you even do to prep somebody? Oh, yes. We well, here's my

here's my secret to interview prepping. Firstly, the interview prep begins well before the interview. Right? Well ESLint, interview prep starts the first line of code. Like, we call it I learned it from, Scott Hanselman. We call it front loading, Right? Where the goal is to answer as many questions with your projects as possible prior to getting, like, the code challenge. Right? So you're like, for instance, I'm a if you're a front end engineer, right, the things people wanna know is do you, write semantic HTML? How do you write clean CSS? Do you understand design systems? Like, are you working with, like, front end architecture, like, style, like, BIM or SMACs? Or you have strong CSS? Do you understand how to use APIs? And do you have experience at the front end framework? Right? So I am, like, thinking in that aspect of building a project, making sure that this portfolio has grid and flex components, understanding the module. Like, you know, you have scalable modular components that you can use flex with, but then on the main layout, you're using grid. Then, that like, that first landing page, make sure it's just HTML and CSS, JavaScript. Right? All that just pure HTML, CSS, JavaScript.

Then I have a secondary project like Marvel API since I'm a comic book fan. Right? So I'm having Marvel API and use React to make a search database page where you can search and find everything that, you know, is whatever Vercel superhero that you type in. So that way, it'll lay out everything that you need. Then, like and make sure that's mobile first as well. So that's the first thing. I wanna make sure I answer, like, when like, make sure it's pretty. Make sure it's about me. Make sure it's eye catching. Try to tell people portfolios. Stop using black in portfolios. Portfolios are your business card. Portfolios, like, if you're going on a 1st date, you wouldn't dress like a slap on your 1st date, so don't do your portfolio like that. It's like it's dating. Like, trying to get go trying to get somebody's attention, like, trying to get to make some bad decisions. Let's go. So that's the first thing I'm making sure.

Looking at the UX components of it, like, there's a really good website, laws in UX.

He actually has a book Node. John Yarlowski, I think, is his last Node, but he laws and UX is just is amazing. You're trying to get the basics of UX fast. Like, dude Wow. Use that book. This is cool. Yeah. This is really cool. I've never seen this before. Well, link it in the show notes.

Yeah. It's amazing.

So I'm I have veterans go through that. I'm tell teaching that then. Alright. So now they they're there, and we're like, okay. Now you've Bos all this heavy lifting with this portfolio that answers all the questions. Now you can work on smaller components of projects to continue improving your GitHub, improving your skills, or you're a Node fan and, like, improving your skills so that you can work on smaller things, more tactful things to tune in to shore up like that, like, Node challenges, things like that. So we have a code challenge channel where they're where they sign in every day, and they can do code challenges that we pick. Now, like, we write literally based upon their skill set in the cohort.

So then after that, once they we're doing the interview prep. I personally look over every resume. Like, if you want me to look at a resume, I'm there. I'm looking at it. I help you rewrite it. I'm helping you retooling it. What types of things are you looking for there if you look at someone's resume? Alright. So when when I'm thinking of being a programmer or getting a programming job, I'm looking at first of the 3 users. Right? 3, is what I call it. So 1st user is the robot. Right? So, like, you're on LinkedIn.

A lot of people don't know this, but a lot of resumes and stuff gets screened for, like, by bots. Right? So I'm looking for keywords. I'm looking for JavaScript. I'm looking for React. I'm looking for semantic HTML. I'm looking for CSS. I'm looking for you talk about smacks and b m. I'm looking for all that stuff that the robot would, like, also look for the bot would, like, pick up on. So I'm looking for that for that stuff, implementing that and adding that stuff in there. Then after that, I'm looking for a nice TypeScript elevator pitch style overview before people get down, get bumped the bottom. Then I am pruning all the military jargon out. I that's the first thing, and it's so and it's such a hard thing for our veterans because the things that we do in the military is really, really hard and, you know, really, really cool on a lot of things. But they were like, yo. I understand that. But for a person that's, like, looking at you for a software position, this isn't going to matter to them because, one, we're less than 1% under the civilian pnpm of the population of United States of America.

2, they are on average 9 to 11 people removed from any military in Node States. So, yeah, no one's gonna understand how you were Yarn of a process that protected $52,000,000,000 worth of, assets.

Like and then as and, you know, they have that. First, they have a knee jerk, but, like, but this is a part especially the guys who've been in, like, more than, like, 10 Yarn, had a knee jerk reaction. Like, this is a part of my life and who I am. Like, yo, I understand that. However, we have to set the world as what it is and not what we want it to be, and we have to focus like, we have to play offense and be counter offensive. When I start talking to them in more of a tactical point of view, they start understanding things. So, like and that's I think part of my strength is that I I live the life that they live so I can look at it from a tactical Yeah.

Jargon. I've made sure that when they're talking about their projects and the things they've done, that they've kind of covered what I call the TPC or the total person concept, showcasing, like, how much of a self starter they are, how much, like, you know, they are into, learning this craft, coming better, and also making So we've had So we've had 2 veterans who are, like, Wes, they went through a big boy jobs. We did 4 hour interviews with these guys because we were like, you know, you have to do this nightmare. Like, when they get when they get the interview position, Wes like, alright. His position, so we Scott prep for. This is what we're gonna do. We actually have a FAANG prep channel for those who end up getting FAANG interview jobs.

For our audience, that's Facebook, Apple, Amazon,

Google? Netflix and Google. Netflix. Netflix and Google. Yeah. Like and that's the

quite frankly, that's the worst channel to be in. Why you don't wanna be like, because paying interviews are the worst interviews. Right? Yeah. Wes and I both interviewed at Google, and we both did not get the job. So we we both have firsthand experience too JS, like, yeah. It it sucked.

We should have somebody on who has got a job there and talk about what the interview process is like.

Yeah. Where we went wrong. Yeah. So, like, that's the channel that Wes, like, be running you through the gauntlet on that channel. But if it's a normal interview, we just we focus on a phone screen, then we focus on a technical conversation, then a coach challenge because that's usually the typical interview. Right? Three things. Phone screen to make sure you're not crazy, typical interview to make sure that you actually know how to talk tech to another technical Vercel. Then a coach challenge to make sure that you actually can write code. Right? That's the typical interview. Right? Three phase process of tech interview.

Whereas, you know, FAANG interviews JS, like, 4 different, interviews, and then it's, like, 1 is, like, 4 hour long 4 hours long. You gotta get interviewed by the team, all that stuff. Like, average FAANG interview lasts, like, that process lasts, like, 2, 3 weeks. So, like, that's how we do it, like, at VW at VWC.

That's super helpful. It's questions we get all the time. People ask how to prep for interviews, and quite honestly, I've never aside from good that Node Google interview I talk about all the time, I've never really had a job or gone through an interview either. So

I've been on both side, yeah, both sides of the in the table there.

But see, you front load a lot. Like, you build so much and you do so many things.

Like, people already know your skills. Like, one of your first projects one the first time I heard of this, I was there was a project with, like, keyboards, where you just press a button and it will show you the key code. Dot info. Yeah. So, like, I was looking at I was doing work with accessibility on comic book, and I was looking at key codes. I kept looking at key codes, and I just saw that so I can use the key code, like, for users that have Wes, mobility in their hands. So that's what you're you do. You you consistently and continuously build projects that add value, and the more projects you build that add value, more things you build that add value, the less questions people have. Proof is in the pudding.

Speaking of proofing in the pudding, this this is actually a real yeah. I know. It's a it's a rough transition, but this is a real tale from distress land where you push a a repo live and Sanity saves your butt. So the sponsor that I'm gonna be talking about right now is century@century.i0.

Now I just pushed out a tremendous update to level up tutorials Scott yesterday. At the time of recording, this will be months old, but it's using a new video player and all this sort of stuff. Right? So this is this is a personal experience I had yesterday. I pushed this thing live, and then maybe about a a fraction of a second after pushing this live, I got my 1st little Sanity email came in saying, hey.

There's string of d d is not defined or whatever, blah blah blah. But the end the end result was is that date FNS had changed part of their format API, and you had to use little d's instead of large ones.

So I got bit by that too. You got bit by that too. And I I thought I had gotten them all, and it turns out I missed 1. But guess who did not miss 1? It was Sentry, and that made it so that I was able to push out a fix for that within seconds of pushing out of the live application. I mean, my Wes didn't find it. Nothing found it, but Sentry found it and let me Node. And I was able to solve that bug within seconds, really reducing the time of any sort of user inconvenience.

So, firsthand account of Sanity being amazing. Now Sentry at Sentry dot I o is the error and exception handling tool that is just really fantastic. They're going to be adding performance testing. I don't know if you've seen any of these performance testing tools, Wes, but I opted in for the beta recently.

And it basically is giving you the performance stats of all of the URLs basically on your site. You could think of it almost JS, like, Google Analytics for performance, and I'm getting some really seriously good data here. Right now, I'm seeing that a page that I had typically, which JS forward slash tutorials, was pretty slow. Well, the past 94 users on that page have had an average load time of 500 milliseconds, which for me, pretty good. I like that I like that that it's in the milliseconds. We didn't hit a second even for the load time, and that was one of the slowest loads on my entire site. So I'm getting a ton of use out of these performance tools already. I've only had them up for 24 hours. Century@century century.i0, one of my absolute favorite tools for all those reasons and more. Use the coupon code Sanity treat, all lowercase, all one word, and you're going to get 2 months for free. So thank you for Centric for sponsoring.

There's obviously a lot going on right now in every community, and the web development community is, sort of responding to police brutality and all the protests and whatnot. And Scott and I, I hopped on a call. I'm like, Scott, we need to do something.

We're all ready to go, and then Jerome hopped in. He's like, hey, Wes. Like, let me know what you're gonna do. And so we jumped on a call, and

very, very appreciative for your time and whatnot. Well, we had a conversation. Your initial thing was like, alright. Let's do 1 on 1 time to with, people of color, black people, and women and see yeah. Let's go through their things, go through mentorship. And I was like, that's okay, but when you really are missing the mark on and say, you guys have a voice that you can both provide allyship and amplification to people who already have the talent. What we've already learned is that that there's no such thing as a lack of black talent. What there is is a lack of employers willing to drop their pattern matching practices and, you know, invest and take chances on minorities, on people of color, on, Latinx, on, trans people. Like, these that is the problem that we're having in the tech community. It's not the, there's not Node black people. Like, there's a whole website called the black talent, tech talent pipeline that they're talking about it. And so, the black codes, they're a user group in Nashville, and they're building that talent up as well. So these things, they're they're there. They exist. What what needs to happen is that people like you guys who have that forum, this platform, take those opportunities, find things you like, find people that you already found are amazing. Who if you have any tips for them, make those tips. You have introductions.

Make those introductions.

Let people know that these people exist, because and amplify the idea of, you know, make a make the hire, make the wire. Right? Put do the wire. Right? Like, because that's the issue that we have. It's not that people these like, this talent doesn't exist. It's that people are not Wes wanna take a chance. And if you guys won't take that chance, other people are gonna be more open to taking that chance because that's just how the world works.

So JS you know, that's how Betsy Cole started. That's how the whole learn how to code as a veteran kinda started. I was telling people you should learn how to code. People were like, cool. But when I wasn't the person getting paid to code, no one was listening. Then when I was making the money on Node and I was having a fun lifestyle, you were like, yo. How do I learn how to do that? So somebody has to make make the 1st move and amplify and be, like, a real, like, legit ally.

But, yes, like you said, I'm I'm doing positive things on Twitter. I'm trying to just mitigate people's emotions

because I know They're doing an excellent job at it.

I I've been in firefights. I've been in mortars. I know how hard, like and how emotional things can be in good. I know that, you know, this is a marathon, not a sprint. So and stress is, like, the number Node killer of things like when when you're doing things like this. So you have to be able to think in a manner to where you're saw you're focused on solving a problem, but you're not letting the, you know, naturally human things, like, affect your, like, process of of starting of solving it because, like, you Yarn completely justifying your anger. You are completely justifying your stress and your worry and things like that. Like, you know, I have boys, and I am, like, terrified. Like, the idea of driving my wife's Yarn. Like, she has like, I have a, like, little, like, Honda Sonata because I, well, I picked that car just because, like, no one's gonna be that suspicious. And my wife has a Mercedes, and I can't have my 17 year old, like, drive that thing. Like, cops will pull them over. I am terrified of what might happen. Like, you know, I had to explain that to a friend who you know, it's cool that you see the all the things that I've gotten, but at the same time, you know, cops don't ask me for my d d two fourteen.

Cops, I'm still 5 times more than What's that? Sorry. What's that? D d two fourteen. Canadian.

I'm sorry. It's a form that, like, the it's the form that the influencer gives you once you once you get out. Like, you know, even as the executive director of Mexico, I have to constantly remind people that, yes, I am a veteran.

And then they think the whole, oh, you bleed green, so, you know, color doesn't matter. Like, no. Pause. I'm black too. I was like, I I was born black. I earned the right to be called a veteran. Like, that they're not. Yeah. They don't, like, they're not separated. They're the same thing. I'm a black veteran. Like, that's how I'm described.

So that whole like, I'm trying to help people stay calm because I'm like, you know, this stuff is hard. It's not gonna be over anytime soon. So to do this work, you gotta take care of yourself. Like, you know, people like, you know, drinking water, eating right. You gotta learn how to deal with your stress. Like, that's, you know, taking care of your mental health. All this stuff to get this mission done, you know, you're gonna have to a lot of self care and a lot of prep and a lot of planning, a lot of strategic thinking because Node one mistake, people are gonna try to exploit it or, you know, make it like, you know, we're in this new weird thing where the, you know, Sanity boogie man is what caused everything. And I'm like, wait. What? And it's just it's a weird thing, particularly because I I'm a veteran, so people assume that I have a heavy conservative leaning. And I might know for this influential veterans are just like and most of you are just like everything else. It's just the most vocal people tend to usually be on the extreme side of one side or the other, but we're, you know, a healthy mix of everything else. And I've been reading reports and articles all week of, like, people who have felt who were upset and mad and, like, general from generals to national guard that were were in DC, and they were like, we should not have been there. That was wrong thing. And that's kinda what made me, like, say something else. I was looking around. I was looking around my constituents who are executive directors.

Like, they weren't saying anything. And why are these 50 year old dudes, like, not saying a damn thing? And I'm like, okay. So y'all not gonna okay. I guess I'll be the 1st person to say something. I was like, I and I was like, no. I walk for a ESLint every day for because of for boot for putting boot ass on my country, and I'll be damned. And I'm watching y'all, like, do this type of of this is insane.

And I'm sorry for swearing, like but that's where it got, like, emotional. No. No. No. Like this like, it made me visibly Sanity, and I had to say something. But then also knew that, yo, while you're angry, you have to mitigate that and control it and actually think of strategically. So I'm like, yo, do the work. You Node? Allies and people are like, oh, you know, some people are they're getting tired of talking to people about Allied show. I'm like, yes. It's hard, but you still have to do it because, you know, being an ally is hard. Like, we're asking I tell people all the time, like, you're asking somebody to give up something that in the animal kingdom, like, no one you could ask a tiger to get to the level of a deer. Right? Like, it's wild. I say, hell, let's get rid of the things that are the systems that are in place to make us more equal so that way to make us equal so you don't have these predisposed advantages of me in our society.

That is hard for someone to come up and say, like, yes. I am aware that there JS racist system in place Mhmm. That keeps me from getting ahead of you. That, keeps you from getting hit in the same manner. I understand that because the system, you have to work twice as hard for the same thing. I understand that even though we might have accomplishments, there are things that are in the way that aren't in for for you, they aren't in the way for me. I understand that. Yeah. How do I help be a part of the solution and not the problem? That's freaking hard.

Right? So I'm like, no. It's difficult as it is, Like, point in the book, I am still honored when people ask me because I'm like, yo. Like, yeah. Let's have this conversation because I'm like, yeah. I know that's difficult. Like, yes. And especially, like, you've like, people are asking me during that time frame. Like, everybody's emotions are kinda Scott. So, you know, come up to a black Vercel, ask them, like, how do you help make you, you know, a better person? You're, like, little nervous. It's the last thing we wanted to do.

Yeah. Like, you're a little nervous.

I get it. Like, okay. Yeah. Thanks a while. Like, you're you're you Node, there's there's a lot of emotions going on. Node like, he might cuss us out. Like, Wes, like, it's like, you everybody has to control themselves on that because, like, the only way we win is as a unit. Right? We can't can't be any singular forward motion. It has to be a unified set. Like, you know, this is how you solve it. And it's not about getting political. It's about, you know you know, it's everybody against racism. It's not, you know, just, democrats or conservatives or republicans or libertarians. It's everybody against racism. And we like, it's a global issue. Like, if you're in you're in a country where it's not black people, but it it's someone it's another culture Wes it gets that too. Right? It's everyone.

That's, like, my message was because to me, it was a horrible thing, but the ingenuity came from people being common and stuff was just amazing, like, how the k pop, like, stance took over. Like I was so bizarre yet. Yeah. It was like, you know, it was like Avengers Endgame. People came out of the woodwork. We had the Amish. We had k pop. We had witches. Like Yeah. Yeah. Like, yo. This JS, like, this is this is legit, like, Avengers Endgame. Wes at the end, I was like, yo. Come together.

So, like, I was like, this is what it is about. Everybody working together to end a systemic issue because we're all getting you know, you saw the New York Times bestsellers list.

Every book was about, like, you know, being able to, like, see the systemic racism in yourself and being able to be a better ally. And I was like, yo. That is like, these are the steps. I mean, the people are wanting, like, to Oh, no. People are wanting to end it. So it's like, there are but just like with veterans, like, if there's a veteran that's willing to do the work, I'm gonna be there for them. There's a person ally that Wes willing to do the work, I'm gonna be there for them. Like, that's, like, what we're supposed to be for. We're supposed to help each other. Right? I like you know? And I know I tell people the time, like, my wife, she gets on my nerves about it because I'm like she's like, you're super selfless, so you don't take you don't take any time for yourself. I'm like, that's the point. Like, military taught me, you know, service for self, service excellence, and pride. Like, service for self based on what we do. That's what we're supposed to be doing. So that JS, like, in inter integrity first. So being honest, doing the right thing no one's looking, taking care of people by putting yourself, like, you know, to be selfless. Like, that is a act of leadership. Servant leadership is where it's at. So that's where I'm like, I have to help people. I can't just sit that way. I can just Yeah. Like, especially, like, you know, I'm one of the Scott more more visible veteran in leadership, and I'm the only black one under, like, 40. And I'm like, if I don't say anything, then who the hell will? So, like, what am I supposed to do? Like, you know, you got the big six just chilling, so I was like, okay. I gotta do something.

Totally. That's a blog post I think I wanna see you write is I've had a few notes here throughout the entire podcast. It's just, like, skills the military has taught you to critical thinking, level headedness, stressful situations, helping others. Like, I would love to just see, like it's it's super hot right now.

I don't know. But is that is that allowed? I know all the Navy SEALs are writing books right now. Right? Oh, yeah. I yeah. It's allowed. Like, they're not supposed to, but they you know, the government will, like, charge them, like, $1,000,000, and then, like, they'll make, like, 10. So it's okay.

But, yeah, you can tell me talk about that stuff all the time. That's one of the things I always tell people. Like, I think people, especially with enlisted troops, folks think that you're out there just following warp. It's like, no. Like, we're the ones we're in a constant feedback loop. Like, Kanban is used out in the field, like, you know, doing small tasks. Yeah. Like, doing small tasks, things like that. Like, stand ups, ups, we like, it's not just not called stand up. Like, we don't call it stand up, but, like, we literally have, like, protocols we're in and we're doing. We're on patrol. We circle up. Like, if it's more than a minute, we're on a knee, or it's more than 5 minutes, we go prone. We are checking out who's red, if you're if is if you're red for ammo or green for ammo, if you're red for water, green for warp water, if you're red for, food MREs, all that stuff, like, how Wes your battery life? That's Scott of Wes do these systemic checks all the time. Like, this is just a knowledge transfer of how to operate with that. Like, that's all it is. I mean, we teach my favorite part of that JS teaching people kanban because you when the when they see how kanban is and you put that knowledge transfer of how it works in, like, rapid deployed forces, and they see that, oh, they're using this. So it, like, alleviates, like, some of the stress of them because they're like, yo, I kinda already know how to do this. It's just a different way. And I guess a part of being able that's part of community and being able to be in, like, the communities. Like, okay.

I I was a veteran. I know how this lifestyle is. I'm a programmer. I know how this lifestyle JS, and I know where they, like or the intersection of them. Like and that's where I try to focus right, on on this side. Like, same thing. Like, that's what it's about. Knowledge transfer, helping people, pushing forward, get the 1 Node unified mission across. Beautiful.

Is there anything else that, like, specifically, you wanted to get across to our audience or you we didn't talk about that you'd like to talk about?

No. I mean, this was a blast. I'm and, I mean, you know, take care of each other, support veterans, Black Lives Matter. Like, just be the change you want. So be the superhero you wish you had when you were a kid. So, like, that's, like, the that's one rule that I follow.

Amazing. Amazing. Alright. Let's let's get into some sick picks. This is the part of the podcast where we pick things that are sick. I'll start with mine just because I I have it right here, and it's a YouTube channel. So over the last, I don't know, 8 8 or so months, I've been doing a whole bunch of research and trying to learn about I wanna convert either an ATV or a go kart to electric. So I wanna buy, like, a gas one that the engine has exploded and and converted over to, electric. And I've watched a bunch of stuff on how batteries work, and I feel like I've got it down. I've talked about that in the past, but now I'm trying to understand motors, gearing, torque, how come horsepower, electric horsepower versus gas horsepower, all that works. And I've just been ingesting for probably the last 6 months or so all of Jeremy Fielding's YouTube videos, and he has got all kinds of videos on different types of motors. What motors are good? Like, if you pull a motor from a treadmill versus a microwave, like, what's better even though they go at the same speed? Actually, I don't think a microwave goes the same speed as a a treadmill, but it's just, like, awesome. He's a self taught engineer, so there's no background in this stuff. Just Just all self taught, and it just just makes so much sense to me. So check it out, Jeremy Fielding on YouTube.

Wow. That Wes pretty good. I never heard of that. I am going to sick pick a show on Netflix. I feel like Netflix is so persistent around everybody right now. Everybody has Netflix. Right? So, hopefully, I'm not leaving too many people out here. But have you ever seen the show Explained? I believe it it was created by Vox, but it's been around for a couple seasons now. And I I got my parents into this because we watched 1 on tattoos. My my dad got into tattoos, and, it was sort of like the history of this. But explained JS basically these deep dives into explaining various things. Right? Like so one of them would be, like, tattoos and why it was taboo and the history of it. Another one would be, like, cricket. Like, I don't know anything about cricket, but explains the whole history of the video gay or the video game, the the game, the sport cricket.

And, there's so many of these amazing ones. K pop one, I I didn't really know too much about k pop, and this gave me the the whole background.

There was Node really important episode in relation to some of what we talked about here, but there was one called the the racial wealth gap explained, and it was talking about how loans were issued in specific neighborhoods and and directed black families in specific ones and how some of these things that underline sort of how we got here and how sort of the the quote, unquote American dream was not available to everybody. So if you watch this season, really put on the racial wealth gap. It was one of the most important things that I've watched on in this, but just about every single one of these is is fantastic. There's a couple seasons of it, and, Courtney and I just binged through all of these. They're all pretty quick, like npm minutes long and and really, really just well done, well produced. Oh, there's 1 on coding. I I don't know if I've seen the 1 on coding. Hey. Interesting.

I'm in. Jerome, do you have any sick pick today? Yeah. I have,

2. If you it's a show. If you're looking for a show, HBO, they have the watchmen.

I don't know if you guys have watched it yet, but, I haven't seen the show. Yeah. The that that series is is amazing.

It's really well written, and ironically, warp some of the things that people have learned, I think, especially in my Vercel, because I'm a big comic nerd, people have kinda started like, it was the 1st show that woke them up because it covers, Black Wall Street and the Tulsa, Oklahoma massacre and things of that nature. And I'll never forget when someone was like, why would they make this such a horrible thing up? And and I was like, Node. That's that's real. And she was like, what? Like, yeah. That's real.

The stuff that we're not taught in school for some reason. Like, no. Yep. You're not taught in school like that. And she's like, I, like, lived in Oklahoma my whole life. I never knew about this. I was like, yikes.

The technical video is like the thing that I am, like, on fire about right now. It's a holographic.

Basically, screen mirrors your video so you can do tutorials and things of that nature and walk through the tutorials and people can see you in the background versus you like being, you know, a little square here.

What's it called? Vidrio?

Vidrio JS v I d r I o. Absolutely on fire about

Wes

Just something like Cool. Just a little bit of waste. I've never heard of this. Yeah. I just learned about it, like, last week, and I have been playing with it every day.

Yeah. You gotta see this to to understand what it is. Cool. I'll put the link in the show notes as well.

Sick pick, Jerome.

Thank you.

Alright.

Shameless plugs. I'm gonna shamelessly plug all of my courses. Wes boss.comforward/courses.

Check it out. Coupon code syntax for $10 off.

Yep. I'm gonna shamelessly plug my courses JS as well. The course we're doing for this month, because we do a a monthly course over at LevelUp Tutorials, is on design systems with CSS and CSS variables. We're using modern CSS stuff to do, creating design systems.

For me, of course, I'm gonna share and supply everything at VWC. We just started some of the veterans have started a podcast where they're interviewing grads and talking about all things tech from ESLint of view of, like, a transition to veterans, So definitely check that out. We just got our GitHub sponsors, for our work. Please, like, if you wanna sponsor our tech, so that way Wes can continue to, like, build new things. Our end goal is to take that website and have it to the point where we have videos, where you're gonna be using ESLint along with the videos and have it you know, you'd be able to plug in, sign in with your GitHub, your Stack Overflow, like, our end game, like, push these big shout out to, and Jira for hooking us up with all of their Jira products. Because our end game for the website for the next year to 2 years is insane. Like, that platform JS, like, is gonna be able to help us ramp up to going from maybe 40, 50 veterans a year to hopefully, like, 500 veterans a year with these.

Like, I'm so excited.

Yeah. And just donate. Donate and listen to our stories. Follow the things that we're doing via our Twitter page.

Our Twitter is Wes.

I'm at Jerome Hardaway. I'm always so I am just trying to be positive and help as many people as I can.

We definitely appreciate you. You're doing amazing things, and, thank you so much for coming on the show. Roger that. I think you guys have invited me. Of course. Oh, you're welcome. Alright. Talk to you later.

Peace.

Peace.

Head on Peace. Peace. Head on over to syntax.fm for a full archive of all of our shows. And don't forget to subscribe in your podcast player or drop a review if you like this show.